When are "scrubbing", "smoothing" & other techniques too much for Blu-Ray releases?

digitalbabe

Premium Supporter
Apr 12, 2009
42,350
USA
This is always a hotly debated issue. On one hand you want the Blu-Ray to look like it is clearer than any other release that came before (otherwise, what is the point of the "upgrade"?). On the other hand, you don't want all of the character of the movies removed.

When is it "too much", for you personally and why?

DB
 
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I'm generally OK with it on ANY movie except horror... ESPECIALLY zombie films.

Horror, and it's close counterpart exploitation, NEED the grain and scratches to give them that look that they're known for.

If it's a blockbuster movie, like Star Wars, i'm all for cleaning them up. I DO like the originals... But at the end of the day if it's not cleaner, why buy the BD?
 
What? I'm surprised this is coming from you, being a director. Isn't keeping the original look of the film the most important thing?

DNR hasn't exactly done wonders for movies. Just take a look at predators and predator's hunter edition. That was cleaned up and it just doesn't look right anymore,


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What? I'm surprised this is coming from you, being a director. Isn't keeping the original look of the film the most important thing?

DNR hasn't exactly done wonders for movies. Just take a look at predators and predator's hunter edition. That was cleaned up and it just doesn't look right anymore,


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I think it depends. If you take Star Wars for instance... George Lucas was NEVER happy with the way they looked, he just settled on a look due to the lack of technology.

When better technology came out he cleaned up his films to be better suited to what he wanted originally.

As a director I understand that. In filmmaking you are NEVER done with a film, you just run out of time to tinker with it and have to put it out there...

There are some films, horror and grindhouse, that really benefit from scratchy, dirty, grain... But other films, such as blockbusters that were supposed to be clean, benefit from being cleaned up.

I know what you mean when you say that a movie doesn't look right anymore, but that's to a consumer. As a filmmaker you always want your film to look better than it is.
 
I don't know...Predator is one of my all-time favorite movies. I have both editions. I preferred the new one, despite what many people from here to eternity said-I trust my own eyes, and ultimately never make any decisions based on the largely "cynical" chatter that occurs, even way ahead of a release. The waxy scenes? Awful and we laughed when we saw them! However, if I am paying for an "upgrade" with new technology, then the movie should be improved. Sorry, but the old BD of Predator looked like a VHS put on a Blu-Ray-a waste of time and money for me, personally-I was very disappointed.

That does not mean that there have not been ruined transfers, with too much tinkering, and I think that with the pressure of "cleaning up old films", it's easy to get a little too "perfect", especially if a film was meant to have some murkier,grainier elements, as part of the "atmosphere". But for Predator, it was nice to see the clarity I had hoped for, in the original. And despite all of the squawking already happening about Cameron's comment that the Alien film have been "cleaned up", it better look like a Blu-Ray- otherwise, I'll just bust out my VHS "Alien Triple Pack" and be done with it:)

The "balance" is tricky, and someone, somewhere will always be unhappy, but as a consumer, I expect my favorites to look better in 2010 than they did in 1970,etc-otherwise, I'd honestly feel taken for a ride while watching the same tired transfer-just on a different type of disc.
 
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I'd also like to add...

You can scrub, buff, blah blah blah a film so much that it looks degraded... Like when they use photoshop on people and it makes them no longer look like humans. Just plastic people...
 
The "balance" is tricky, and someone, somewhere will always be unhappy, but as a consumer, I expect my favorites to look better in 2010 than they did in 1970,etc-otherwise, I'd honestly feel taken for a ride while watching the same tired transfer-just on a different type of disc.

+1
 
At the end of the day its all about personal preference. I do think that old movies aren't suppose to look like today's films. Waxy looking doesn't mean better, to me it looks bad because that's not what it should look like.

Some movies like Alien are grainy period. Taking all that grain out and making them waxy is not an upgrade is a bad job. Obviously, that's my personal opinion. If you like them looking waxy and all the detail taken out because they had to use dnr to clean it that's your personal preference.


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Hey Horhay,

I agree with some of what you've said. It's this type of debate that is very interesting to me,because it shows a very wide breadth of preference and perception, within the consumer market place.

As I, and many others have said, I don't think all of the new Predator Ultimate Hunter Ed looks waxy-just some scenes-which were failures, as far as I am concerned. I chose to compare the two discs myself, as I am the one that needs to watch the film, or share it with friends & family. As mentioned, I chuckled at the "waxy" scenes, because the actors should not look like a figurine from Madame Tusseud's Wax Museum-unless that is where I am visiting. But there were numerous scenes with stellar clarity for the new Ult Hunter release, over the previous BD release, and I think this kind of inconsistency shows that the studios and companies charged with these "clean ups" are also trying to find their balance in how to present the finished product to a consumer base, that expects Blu-Ray to delivery "stunning clarity in picture and sound", etc. BD is still relatively infantile, and each time any kind of "restoration" or cleanup occurs, the public will always compare how they "felt" when they first watched a film, to determine if the new release is an "upgrade".

For me, I prefer the extra clarity in the new release, because the "murkiness" of the old VHS, and the previous BD made a lot of detail virtually imperceptible. That doesn't mean I like the "waxiness"-it just means that I like some of the technological enhancements that were made to the film, to allow me to enjoy what Blu-Ray has to offer, which is enhanced clarity and detail. All detail was not scrubbed from Predator-I've seen that movie numerous times, on various formats, and there were scenes in the new BD, that were absolutely stunning-in a good way.

As for Aliens, Cameron, himself commented that he was limited by the technology at the time, and is glad that his film now looks cleaner and clearer. this doesn't mean that he is right, but he is a visual master, in my opinion, so I'll need to trust that he would not sanction that his own film be released in a version not to his liking. That film is dirty, gritty, sweaty-but I believe they can show us that,without ruining the "feel" of the film. If Cameron has seen and embraced the new transfer and doesn't feel it has ruined his intention, I choose,to give that mindset the benefit of the doubt, until I see the disc, for myself. Now, if once the disc is released, and I see it myself, I personally hate it, I will be the first to say that they $%^& # it up, and I will be very upset, because I am obviously looking forward to it. If they can communicate the claustrophobia and paranoia/anxiety that exists in that film, while still showing me the film in a visual upgrade (remove dirt, artifacts, etc etc), that a Blu-Ray should showcase, I will be happy.

As as a HUGE fan of this series, especially part 1 and 2, I want to see every bead of sweat on Ripley's face!) Many of those aspects were hidden by the grain that existed, 20+ years ago, not by choice, but because of the limitations of the technology at the time. I have 400+ Blu-Rays and growing, and though I've not had a chance to watch them all, the most annoying feeling I can experience as a consumer, about to pick up an "upgraded" version of one of my favorites, is popping it in the player, and seeing a film exactly how I saw it on DVD or on VHS. It's a wasted opportunity and a con to customers.

"New" is not always better, but I think that sometimes we also have a tendency to clutch on to how something "was", for nostalgia or some other emotional connection, and and we can perceive a visual "clean up" as some kind of "robbery". So, somewhere in between of those two things, each person has to decide where their "midpoint"-and that midpoint is what makes these discussions very interesting and lively. For me, Eggs, Acid spitters, life-sized Nostromo Alien space ships aside-if my Alien Blu-Ray looks like my VHS, it's being projected out into space for Ridley's Space Jockey to find in the prequel:)

DB
 
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I agree with what you said and I think on something I didn't explain it quite well. I am all for a film to be cleaned meaning that all debris, artifacts, etc be removed. Some older movies for example Jason and the Argonauts which was released about a month ago or so, went through this process. If you ever seen the the previously released versions you know how the image looks it's gritty and artifacts were found throughout. The BD release looks clean, but all the overall original looks remains intact. That's what I was trying to get across. When a clean up job goes way too far to make them look like they were made yesterday is what I am not ok with. Again, this is all personal preference.

I've heard people complain about The Godfather trilogy, which by the way looks fantastic!! Again films like that were naturally dark and grainy in all previous releases, removing that is simply a bad idea. It was cleaned from artifacting and other issues with the video and the end result is impressive.
 
Hey Horhay, yes-I heard that about the Godfather. I have only seen part 1 so far, but when we did watch it, I thought it looked quite good, especially as it was not a "New Release". I am excited for what's in store for BD-I hope some other older titles are cleaned up within reason so we can enjoy them in the new format. Good to see the release slate opening up with more titles, coming faster:)