Anybody else a college football fan? All this expansion talk is crazy! I'm not sure any of this will actually go down but I guess there is some substance to some of these rumors.
College Football Conference Expansion
- Thread starter thunda123
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yah, us news uses a lot of different factors into their rankings, and a major one is their research endowments, which to me has little to do with education and more to do with what the school is producing for research purposes. regardless, thats the most widely used rankings and kansas is ranked higher. and im not saying kstate is a bad school, and there certainly are top programs there just like any quality school of that size or greater.
honestly, im a personal believer in college is what you make of it. if you work your butt off you can get just as much out of a lower ranked school than a higher ranked school. its more about fit.
you can laugh at me saying id pick kansas because of basketball, but they are worth a pick over kstate for that alone. 3 NC's is greater than 0, and when you compare conference championships the difference gets even greater.
i dont think what im saying would be drastically different from a majority of american sports fans either.
KU Football was decent under Mangino. 4 Bowl appearances last decade and 3 bowl wins. Not too shabby. And as far as basketball it isn't always about winning it all. If the conference can get 3,4 or even 5 teams into the late rounds it would speak volumes.
And it would make more sense to pick up Kansas in terms of brand recognition. I'd be willing to wager money that the kansas brand is worth more than K-State and after all that is pretty much what this entire thing boils down to is money.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------
As far as rivalries go, you could look at the possibility of replacing any out of conference scheduling you have with that of a rival in the other division. Cut out the smaller school to throw in that rivalry game against Ohio State or Michigan state.
And it would make more sense to pick up Kansas in terms of brand recognition. I'd be willing to wager money that the kansas brand is worth more than K-State and after all that is pretty much what this entire thing boils down to is money.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------
assuming the b10 lands nebraska and mizzou, the two schools most likely to join, what does our conference look like then regarding divisions?
you have to keep osu and um together due to the rivalry, and then you also have to keep msu and um together due to their rivalry. you could set up a "west" and "east" to have it look like this:
West teams
Nebraska, Mizzou, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
East teams
Indiana, Purdue, OSU, Michigan, MSU, PSU
it would be relatively even, although the east would be pretty loaded as psu and osu are almost always fighting for the title (michigan use to but now they suck), but wisky, iowa and nebraska aren't exactly slouches either as they would have a good chance of being one of the top 3 teams any year.
if you added a team to the "east" it couldn't be a powerhouse team, it would have to be a team on the level of a maryland or wvu. if somehow the b10 got ND you could add them to the west in exchange for illinois and that would make things pretty darn even all around.
ahhhh too many possibilities!!!
As far as rivalries go, you could look at the possibility of replacing any out of conference scheduling you have with that of a rival in the other division. Cut out the smaller school to throw in that rivalry game against Ohio State or Michigan state.
No team will throw out a guaranteed win to go against a rival. It's why the Texas schools have to stay together. and why KU and KSU would have to be in the same conference. Many KU fans think of MU as their other rival, so I'm pretty sure when Neb, and Mizzou go to Big 10, that rivalry will come to an end, as KU can't take any more losses, as they suck in football.
Kansas State only finished one game better last year than Kansas in football and has been worse than kansas 2 out of the last 3 years and has a better all time winning percentage.
And there is no way, given the chance, that Michigan or Ohio state would pass up the chance to schedule a non divisional game. There is just too much money to be had there.
2 of the last 3 years was under prince. KSU was one win away from the Big 12 championship. KU played 4 crappy teams to get wins. they went 1-7 in the Big 12... The overall record doesn't depict on how crappy KU is, they play so many powderpuffs in the non con. KU has the easiest schedule of all teams when they went big time in 2008. KU will have the better winning percentage, because KSU football was the worst football program for 60 years.
Please don't try to tell me KU football is better than KSU football. I live in Kansas. KU football is done, they only care about basketball. KSU football in the last 20-30 yrs destroys KU football and that's what matters. We don't look at the past 2-3 years and say dynasty, or they are good. It's 5-10 years at least. KU doesn't have a Big 12 championship in Football... haven't even made it to the game. KSU has 1, and beat the best college football team ever, as said by ESPN, Sports Illustrated, etc. and they did it easily.
Though this argument has no point of being here for the conference change, as no one cares about KSU or KU, they are only thinking of football and that brings Nebraska and Texas.
Neb and Mizz go to Big 10 (actually 11) and they will add one more team from the Northeast. Pac 10 will take the Big 12 South. The Big 12 north or what's left will combine with the mountain west conference and probably try to add Boise State. You will then have some major power conferences.
1. Texas $138.5 Million
2. Texas A&M $98 Million
3. OU $81.4 Million
4. NU $74.8 Million
5. KU $69.98 Million
6. MU $63.13 Million
7. OSU $55.9 Million
8. TT 55.8 Million
9. CU $49.8 Million
10. BU $48.5 Million (Via DOE Equity in Athletics Disclosure not USA FOIA requests, Baylor is a private school).
11. KSU $48.41 Million
12. ISU $45.8 Million
Some Notes: KU was down $13 million in gross revenues 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 and according to Lew Perkins in a USA Today article in April is currently operating in the red, their 07-08 to 08-09 Net Revenues plummeted as well, they were $17 million in the black in 07-08 down to just around $2 million in the black in 08-09. Of course based on what I hear from WEF Elites, who knows if these numbers are correct . . . Lew freaked after the K-State audit, and cooked their books according to Elite WEF's, and thus that's one reason why so called "auditors" didn't detect all the money laundering and fraud with the tickets.
In 2008 KSU operated in the red due to a court issued buyout clain via former coach Ron Prince, who screwed the school out of millions of dollars in an below the belt small print via contract. This is their first net loss in many many years. They usually run on an 8 million dollar profit at least.
OSU was $17 million in the hole due to losses in investment revenue which Boone Pickens wrote a check to cover. A&M showed strong Net Revenues, but they had to borrow $16 million from the school so I don't know how they got their numbers, nor do I understand why they recently had to borrow so much money.
One Wildcard in this is Baylor which does not show athletic capital improvement giving as revenue on the athletic department books (other athletic departments do this as well) . . . they've built about $50 million dollars in new facilities down in there in the last 3 years, all privately funded. So that's a school that quietly has a lot of money.
Texas shows why everybody else is their *****.
2. Texas A&M $98 Million
3. OU $81.4 Million
4. NU $74.8 Million
5. KU $69.98 Million
6. MU $63.13 Million
7. OSU $55.9 Million
8. TT 55.8 Million
9. CU $49.8 Million
10. BU $48.5 Million (Via DOE Equity in Athletics Disclosure not USA FOIA requests, Baylor is a private school).
11. KSU $48.41 Million
12. ISU $45.8 Million
Some Notes: KU was down $13 million in gross revenues 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 and according to Lew Perkins in a USA Today article in April is currently operating in the red, their 07-08 to 08-09 Net Revenues plummeted as well, they were $17 million in the black in 07-08 down to just around $2 million in the black in 08-09. Of course based on what I hear from WEF Elites, who knows if these numbers are correct . . . Lew freaked after the K-State audit, and cooked their books according to Elite WEF's, and thus that's one reason why so called "auditors" didn't detect all the money laundering and fraud with the tickets.
In 2008 KSU operated in the red due to a court issued buyout clain via former coach Ron Prince, who screwed the school out of millions of dollars in an below the belt small print via contract. This is their first net loss in many many years. They usually run on an 8 million dollar profit at least.
OSU was $17 million in the hole due to losses in investment revenue which Boone Pickens wrote a check to cover. A&M showed strong Net Revenues, but they had to borrow $16 million from the school so I don't know how they got their numbers, nor do I understand why they recently had to borrow so much money.
One Wildcard in this is Baylor which does not show athletic capital improvement giving as revenue on the athletic department books (other athletic departments do this as well) . . . they've built about $50 million dollars in new facilities down in there in the last 3 years, all privately funded. So that's a school that quietly has a lot of money.
Texas shows why everybody else is their *****.
DeLoss Dodds stood in a Kansas City hotel hallway this week and told the truth about conference realignment as only a straight-talking Texan can tell it.
"We didn't start this," said the Texas athletic director. "But if we need to finish it, we'll finish it."
I think Texas is ready to finish it, and here's how.
Nebraska has a deadline.
When Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe emerged from a presidents meeting Friday and talked about a "process" by which the league will decide how to sort the dalliances of some schools with the Big Ten, what he meant was, Nebraska has been called out.
I don't know for sure. I wasn't in the room. But I've talked to people who know what they're talking about. And this is about Nebraska.
This isn't about Missouri. Nobody cares about Missouri. Stay, go, drop football, get mad all over again that the Insight Bowl invited Iowa State. Doesn't matter.
If only Missouri leaves the Big 12, the league is fine. Heck, the league thrives. TV revenues wouldn't go down, plus there's one less mouth to feed. Heck, the NCAA might even give the Big 12 a waiver and let it keep the football championship game.
This is about Nebraska. Everybody cares about Nebraska. Nebraska helps make the league go. Without Nebraska, Texas' and Oklahoma's enthusiasm for the Big 12 wanes.
Which is why I believe Beebe gave Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman a deadline Friday. Stake your claim. Are you with the Big 12 or not? Are you staying or are you waffling?
I don't know if the deadline is next week or next year, though I've got to believe it's closer to the former.
But here's what's at stake. If Nebraska won't commit — and mere words won't do it; we're talking legally-binding document — then a big chunk of the Big 12 is out the door. Probably to the Pac-10, which apparently wants the Oklahoma schools, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Colorado.
"Finishing" it (Dodds' words) won't be easy. Leaving Kansas without an apparent landing place will cause political problems. Some think Congress might even stick its nose in the door.
But even if the road was cleared for the six to join the Pac-10, devilish details will emerge. Starting with, who's in charge of football officiating? I need not say more.
Football and basketball scheduling, leadership structure, bowl alliances. Those will be some long nights at the table.
I really believe the six would prefer to stick it out in this part of the country. I believe Dodds when he says Texas, which drives the boat, likes things just the way they are.
Wouldn't surprise me if all kinds of Oklahomans and Texans called Nebraskans, from football coaches to state politicians, saying don't turn your back on tradition and history and roots. Don't cash in the known and the revered for the unknown and riches.
But if Nebraska won't commit by the deadline, the Big 12 is finished.
Read more: http://newsok.com/article/3466077#ixzz0q7NC5vnN
"We didn't start this," said the Texas athletic director. "But if we need to finish it, we'll finish it."
I think Texas is ready to finish it, and here's how.
Nebraska has a deadline.
When Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe emerged from a presidents meeting Friday and talked about a "process" by which the league will decide how to sort the dalliances of some schools with the Big Ten, what he meant was, Nebraska has been called out.
I don't know for sure. I wasn't in the room. But I've talked to people who know what they're talking about. And this is about Nebraska.
This isn't about Missouri. Nobody cares about Missouri. Stay, go, drop football, get mad all over again that the Insight Bowl invited Iowa State. Doesn't matter.
If only Missouri leaves the Big 12, the league is fine. Heck, the league thrives. TV revenues wouldn't go down, plus there's one less mouth to feed. Heck, the NCAA might even give the Big 12 a waiver and let it keep the football championship game.
This is about Nebraska. Everybody cares about Nebraska. Nebraska helps make the league go. Without Nebraska, Texas' and Oklahoma's enthusiasm for the Big 12 wanes.
Which is why I believe Beebe gave Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman a deadline Friday. Stake your claim. Are you with the Big 12 or not? Are you staying or are you waffling?
I don't know if the deadline is next week or next year, though I've got to believe it's closer to the former.
But here's what's at stake. If Nebraska won't commit — and mere words won't do it; we're talking legally-binding document — then a big chunk of the Big 12 is out the door. Probably to the Pac-10, which apparently wants the Oklahoma schools, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Colorado.
"Finishing" it (Dodds' words) won't be easy. Leaving Kansas without an apparent landing place will cause political problems. Some think Congress might even stick its nose in the door.
But even if the road was cleared for the six to join the Pac-10, devilish details will emerge. Starting with, who's in charge of football officiating? I need not say more.
Football and basketball scheduling, leadership structure, bowl alliances. Those will be some long nights at the table.
I really believe the six would prefer to stick it out in this part of the country. I believe Dodds when he says Texas, which drives the boat, likes things just the way they are.
Wouldn't surprise me if all kinds of Oklahomans and Texans called Nebraskans, from football coaches to state politicians, saying don't turn your back on tradition and history and roots. Don't cash in the known and the revered for the unknown and riches.
But if Nebraska won't commit by the deadline, the Big 12 is finished.
Read more: http://newsok.com/article/3466077#ixzz0q7NC5vnN
Apparently The Mountain West offered a spot to Boise State that they expect to accept on Monday.
Lost in all of this . . . the ACC just inked a new deal with ESPN . . .that will pay each school nearly $13 million a year for the next 12 years.
ESPN was forced to up their offer because Fox Sports Went after the ACC hard.
1. Airtime is running out.
2. The ACC changed nothing, and got a much more lucrative TV deal compared to their old one. Why?? TV sets that's why.
3. Fox Sports appears to be a player.
So the Pac-10 is likely looking towards Fox Sports to make a major run at them, and by doing so wants to expand their conference. If they get the 6 Big 12 Schools, they'll likely have some major TV offers sitting on the table.
ESPN was forced to up their offer because Fox Sports Went after the ACC hard.
1. Airtime is running out.
2. The ACC changed nothing, and got a much more lucrative TV deal compared to their old one. Why?? TV sets that's why.
3. Fox Sports appears to be a player.
So the Pac-10 is likely looking towards Fox Sports to make a major run at them, and by doing so wants to expand their conference. If they get the 6 Big 12 Schools, they'll likely have some major TV offers sitting on the table.
new rumors that the b10 is considering GT, as well as the already mentioned nebraska, mizzou, maryland. i think they are waiting on trying to court ND one more time before they start making offers to other schools.
as for the b12 teams that have not been in the convo, its possible that they could all join a conference like the MWC to make another "mega conference"
its starting to sound more and more like this will happen. all it takes is one school to say they are going to leave and i think the rest will jump ship. it might be mizzou that springs the flood.
also, texas politicians are pushing for all 4 texas b12 teams to stick together if they go to the p10. this would even out the texas schools with california schools in the conference at 4 a piece.
as for the b12 teams that have not been in the convo, its possible that they could all join a conference like the MWC to make another "mega conference"
its starting to sound more and more like this will happen. all it takes is one school to say they are going to leave and i think the rest will jump ship. it might be mizzou that springs the flood.
also, texas politicians are pushing for all 4 texas b12 teams to stick together if they go to the p10. this would even out the texas schools with california schools in the conference at 4 a piece.
Been doing a lot of reading on this lately and it looks as if a texas move to the B10 would be impossible because Tech is not an AAU school and the B10 only accepts AAU schools into the conference. From what I've read the board at Notre dame is split 50/50 on accepting a move to the B10 and if the Big ten were to get Notre Dame then they would stop at 12 teams and the B12 would be safe. But if they can't get Notre Dame then they would Pick up Mizzou almost immediately, Possibly extend an offer to nebraska, who is begging to get out of the Big12, Then they would turn their eyes to the east, Most likely the New York Market.
Should be some crazy stuff.
Yep yep. Even though their brand isn't the biggest they would almost force a massive chunk of the New York market into the B10 Network.
Also ya gotta believe that Notre Dame stands to lose the most out of any other university in this. If they choose to stay independant and expansion goes on as rumored. They could be looking at being on the outside looking in at a completely new college landscape that could be devoid of independants having the chance to make a run at the championship.
Also ya gotta believe that Notre Dame stands to lose the most out of any other university in this. If they choose to stay independant and expansion goes on as rumored. They could be looking at being on the outside looking in at a completely new college landscape that could be devoid of independants having the chance to make a run at the championship.
on top of that, if we get these new conferences, this could imply a BCS shake up as well. they would hold a lot of power and influence, maybe enough to sway away from the system as it is and import a playoff?!
one can hope!
Consistently decent football program. KU?
KU has 12 bowl appearances in their lifetime.... With 3 in a big bowl... 2 before the 1970's. The last 40 years have been horrible for KU.
I agree with ya on that one Cali.
That's the idea. You would have no more Big 12 or Big East. Have 4 conferences that were 12 teams or larger and they could just tell the BCS to stick it and leave the rest out in the cold.
I agree with ya on KU. Their basketball brand makes up for lack of a top football program. That's how respected their b-ball program is.
Those 4 conferences would make a new BCS because they would profit more from BCS than from a playoff....
As for mizzou making it all happen, likely not. The Big 12 doesn't care about mizzou. They care about OU, Texas and Nebraska. Texas or Nebraska will break it open. If Mizzou left I could see the Big 12 ask TCU to join them, and move one of the south schools up, or import Colorado State, or maybe Utah. Too many possibilities, but it will end up with at least 4 big conferences, though I think we will see 5.
As for mizzou making it all happen, likely not. The Big 12 doesn't care about mizzou. They care about OU, Texas and Nebraska. Texas or Nebraska will break it open. If Mizzou left I could see the Big 12 ask TCU to join them, and move one of the south schools up, or import Colorado State, or maybe Utah. Too many possibilities, but it will end up with at least 4 big conferences, though I think we will see 5.
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