XboxONE Xbox One - Main discussion thread

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XB1 - United Kingdom | United States | Canada | France | Germany | Japan
XB1S - United Kingdom | United States | Canada | France | Germany | Japan

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8 CPU cores at 1.6GHz, with a custom 800MHz graphics processor in the GPU. There are 8GB of RAM on board, with 32MB of fast embedded SRAM at double the throughput speed, and a 50GB-capable 6x Blu-ray drive. Wireless connectivity protocols include both Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi Direct, and there’s still a Gigabit Ethernet port for gamers with low latency multiplayer demands. It’ll also come with USB 3.0 and HDMI 1.4a, which supports 3D over HDMI, Ethernet, audio return channels and 4K resolution.​

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Xbox One hardware breakdown by ExtremeTech.com after HotChips reveal

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...d-odd-soc-architecture-confirmed-by-microsoft

The Xbox One SoC appears to be implemented like an enormous variant of the Llano/Piledriver architecture we described for the PS4. One of our theories was that the chip would use the same “Onion” and “Garlic” buses. That appears to be exactly what Microsoft did.

AMD-APU-Diagram.png


That slide is from Llano/Piledriver.

XBO_diagram_WM.jpg


Here’s the important points, for comparison’s sake. The CPU cache block attaches to the GPU MMU, which drives the entire graphics core and video engine. Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary. Mea culpa.

You can see the Onion and Garlic buses represented in both AMD’s diagram and the Microsoft image above. The GPU has a non-cache-coherent bus connection to the DDR3 memory pool and a cache-coherent bus attached to the CPU. Bandwidth to main memory is 68GB/s using 4×64 DDR3 links or 36GB/s if passed through the cache coherent interface. Cache coherency is always slower than non-coherent access, so the discrepancy makes sense.

The big picture takeaway from this is that the Xbox One probably is HSA capable, and the underlying architecture is very similar to a super-charged APU with much higher internal bandwidth than a normal AMD chip. That’s a non-trivial difference — the 68GB/s of bandwidth devoted to Jaguar in the Xbox One dwarfs the quad-channel DDR3-1600 bandwidth that ships in an Intel X79 motherboard. For all the debates over the Xbox One’s competitive positioning against the PS4, this should be an interesting micro-architecture in its own right. There are still questions regarding the ESRAM cache — breaking it into four 8MB chunks is interesting, but doesn’t tell us much about how those pieces will be used. If the cache really is 1024 bits wide, and the developers can make suitable use of it, then the Xbox One’s performance might surprise us.

PS4 Huma

h24.jpg


Vs Non-huma

h22.jpg


PS4 vs Xbox One


Good Article about the differences here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4/2

Xbox One:
1.31 TFLOPS
40.9 GTex/s
13.6 GPix/s
68GB/s DDR3
109GB/s eSRAM

PS4:
1.84 TFLOPS (+40%)
57.6 GTex/s (+40%)
25.6 GPix/s (+90%)
176GB/s GDDR5

05.jpg


PS4 XBO Difference
Texture reads(gt/s)...........56........41.....36.59%
Vertex throughput(bn). .....1.6........1.7....-5.88%
Output(gp/s)..................25.6.......13.6....88.24%
Ops/cycle......................1152......768....50.00%
TF................................1.84......1.308...40.67%


So what does it all mean?
The Texture reads are the number of textures you can "fetch" in per second from a given source. Its exactly what it means. The PS4 can grab 36% more textures per second.

Vertex throughput - Conversely, because both are tied to there clock speed, the end result is, the XBO has an advantage on just how many things it can display on screen per second (note: I'm not saying how pretty those things are).

Output- This one is a little squishy, while the raw numbers would favor Sony, the real trick here is to try and output only what is required. The more useless information you can "kill" and not output at all, the better.
Couple together the ability to store data in a compressed format, a rather large ROP cache that allows for depth testing pre pixel shader work, and you make significant gains in output. It's really really hard to come up with any sort of meaningful conclusion on this one other than to say they both have more than enough grunt to do 1080p 60fps with well over 10 overdraw easily.

Op/s per cycle.......Now here's the one that you need to get you head around and where the famous "50%" more power tends to get bandied about. A few things you have to understand about a graphics pipeline, and that is that its entirely programmable. The length and complexity of those calculations is entirely up to the programmer running for both vertex and pixel (and others these days).

I wont get to much into but lets put it this way. If dev choose a rather lengthy complex calculation to run on a pixel shader, then this will favor the PS4. If not, then it wont affect either, except for the fact that the XBO is pushing more cycles per second.

The best way to thing of it is like lines of code, this is by no means a correct analogy, but its the best I can come up with....

If the programmer runs code on shader that's less than 768 "instructions", then it favor the XBO due to its higher clock rate.
If the code is larger than 768 "instructions" then it favors the PS4.

Here's the kicker though, because this code is running "per vertex" or "per texal" ie. per model or mesh, then your still tied to your vertex throughput or texture fetch rate.
One of these does allow for the PS4's greater lines of code, by allowing for more texture fetches, but on a vertex by vertex rate? Your still limited to clock speed.

The only conclusion I make from this is, that for most tasks, shadow mapping etc it's pretty much a wash outside of clock rate.
The PS4 allows for more complex code in terms of allowing more textures per model or mesh, and more complex and lengthier code "per model".

The end result will likely be a wash in terms of most assets used. Models, the number of models, "things going on" is identical. The actual texture resolution though, this favors the PS4, whether that be through the number of textures applied to a model, or simply higher res textures.

I cant help but think of the PS4 render pipeline architecture as a snake, whose eaten a rather large meal. He has this rather large belly in the middle of it. While its head and tail are sleek.
The issue being of course, if you use that overhead "space" or not.

Conclusion:Things aren't going to be "faster" you not going to see "more things" on the PS4 graphics. What you may see is higher res textures, or better texture effects possible on the PS4. While I expect the frame rate to be steady and the same on both. My gut feeling is, that extra "bump" in the snake is there for compute calculations.

Now, what Ive left out of all of this, is the extra work that either the CPU or GPU have to do on the PS4. There is no real way of conclusively discussing that as Sony hasn't been terribly forthcoming on and additional hardware specs.
But, as things stand, there's and awe-full lot the PS4 has to deal with outside of simply drawing a polygon, that will need either CPU or GPU resources, and could impact on that extra compute claculations overhead the PS4 has.

The 768 ops criticism is justified, its a lot more complex in real life than I explained. Because of the parallelism , in real life you really looking at this over more than simply one clock tick. I did say it was a bad analogy. Running shaders are still a serial thing, you have to calculate you vertex shaders info before you can pass it on to the pixel shader, which is reliant on the vertex shader info (even if it just screen space xyz and u.v. pass through). The whole process is going to take more than one clock tick to complete. But averaged out, its about as close as I could come up with in that analogy. I do get the feeling some on there seem to forget that these pipelines are still working on parallel data sets. We aren't simply talking "op/s" we are talking about a rather large data set of info that has to pass though the shaders, most games would pass though x,y,z,diffuse, tangent data, multiple uv data, all of this has to be swallowed, and these run though the pipeline in sets of two. You cant simply make it "go faster" by adding more ops, if you don't need those op's in whatever code your executing (a simple matrix multiplication for example).

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthrea...ip-Conference-XBOX-One-Silicon-(Update)/page7
 
Only 5 countries will have Xbone voice commands at launch.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/get-the-facts?xr=shellnav

So, Microsoft has put up another page on Xbox.com promoting the Xbone as they do.

What's interesting is the small print right at the bottom, specifically point six:

Xbox voice commands will not be available in all markets on the product release date. Voice commands will be available at launch in US, UK, CA, FR, and DE.
Excuse me while I state the obvious, but I'm fairly sure that's not all of the 13 countries that the Xbone is launching in.

I think that's formal confirmation that Kinect localisation issues is not the reason why Microsoft delayed the console in eight countries a couple of weeks ago.
 
Peter Moore on Xbox One: "Microsoft needs to cough up the date"

Speaking to GI, Peter Moore discussed the unusual situation of having two consoles launch at the same time - and the difficulty that brings for manufacturing and retail.

"The challenge is more for the retailers," said Moore, "and we have to work with them and Microsoft and Sony have to work with them and if they're literally within a week or two weeks of each other it's not easy for retailers to manage their retail presence."

"So things that gamers don't have to worry about but we have to worry about is getting the flow of manufacturing right, getting the quantities right, making sure everything is at retail.

"Depending on which goes first they may want to change the store to focus on the new console coming out, I mean it's just what we do. That's the work we do, that's the business that we're in." Describing the two consoles launching almost simultaneously, Moore said: "There's always been a period of time, a sorbet between consoles, that has cleansed the palate and allowed us to move on.

"It might be a week, who knows? Microsoft needs to cough up the date."

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/2060672/xbox_one_release_date_microsoft_needs_to_cough_it_up.html
 
Dew and Doritos + Xbox One. Unprecedented experience.

http://www.dewanddoritos.com/

V5rYDOL.jpg


Mountain Dew® and Doritos® Brands Will Offer THOUSANDS of Microsoft Xbox One Systems through Biggest Gaming Promotion in Brand History

Promotion Kicks off in Fall 2013; Register for Updates Today at www.DEWandDORITOS.com


PURCHASE, N.Y. and PLANO, TEXAS, June 10, 2013 – Gaming fans in the U.S. will soon be able to experience the next level of play thanks to the biggest gaming promotion in Mountain Dew and Doritos brand history.
This fall, celebrating a new generation of gaming, the Mountain Dew and Doritos brands will give fans the opportunity to get their hands on THOUSANDS of Xbox One consoles, the all-in-one gaming and entertainment system.

To get started, gaming enthusiasts can sign up now at DEWandDORITOS.com for updates.

“The Mountain Dew and Doritos brands are going to reward gamers in the biggest way possible this year with a variety of opportunities to get their hands on the new Xbox One,” said Larry “Major Nelson” Hryb. “We’ll be sharing more details throughout the summer, but rest assured that DEW and Doritos are creating something that is truly befitting of our epic new generation hardware.”

Join the conversation on Twitter @mtn_dew and @Doritos #DEWDORITOSXBOX.
 
Nope. I think its Nov 19th with Watch Dogs.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

I can't see them releasing after the Ps4.It would be ideal for the to launch with the game their audience is looking forward to and that's COD.If anything I would have thought that Sony would release with Watch Dogs, as they seem to have fallen in love with Ubisoft.They have exclusive content on everything except The Division.
 
I can't see them releasing after the Ps4.It would be ideal for the to launch with the game their audience is looking forward to and that's COD.If anything I would have thought that Sony would release with Watch Dogs, as they seem to have fallen in love with Ubisoft.They have exclusive content on everything except The Division.

I totally agree. It's going to be out before the ps4 to make some extra sales and sway the gamers.
 
Analyst: If Xbox One Tanks, It Could Be Microsoft's Last Console

Depending on the Xbox One's performance and the new direction Microsoft takes under a new CEO, the console could be the company's last attempt at gaming hardware. "I think this is a possibility," DFC Intelligence analyst David Cole told GamesIndustry International. "We have always wondered how long Microsoft would stay with the game hardware business. Their strategy for Xbox One clearly looks like it will not be a success on a grand scale."
Asif Khan, CEO of Panoptic Management Consultants, pointed out that the Xbox is "not what brings home the donuts for Microsoft."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127291-Xbox-One-Could-Be-Microsofts-Last-Console
 
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Activist investor at MS who wants out of Xbox given seat on Board of Directors

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/31/microsoft_valueact_ballmer/

Redmond announced the "cooperation agreement" in the late hours of Friday afternoon in San Francisco before the Labor Day three day weekend, which is an ideal time to bury news.

The agreement means ValueAct Capital – one of Microsoft's 15 largest shareholders with 0.8 percent of common stock – will "have the option" of plonking its president Mason Morfit onto Microsoft's board of directors, after the 2013 annual shareholders meeting.
 
Beyond live TV - what the Xbox One user interface means for gamers

What was novelty - if technically impressive - technology on the original Kinect forms a fundamental basis of interaction with Xbox One, and from what we saw at Gamescom, parallels with Xbox 360 hold little water. Voice control on Xbox One actually works and it seems to be genuinely useful. It should be faster than using the joypad for certain functions, but ideally you'd use both in concert.
But what is impressive is that every voice command registered by Kinect is flawlessly transmitted to the relevant kit in the room. It works so well because Kinect itself is the IR blaster. Microsoft has augmented the new Kinect sensor with an IR transmitter in order to see the environment even in pitch black conditions. The upshot of this is that the technology works by drenching the entire room in infra-red light. Forget little LEDs attached to wires you dangle in front of your set-top box; if that's an IR blaster, the Kinect solution is effectively the equivalent of going nuclear.
Perhaps the biggest takeaway from the briefing is the transformation in the general perception of the user interface and its relevance to gamers. The Xbox One reveal concentrated too much on live TV to the point where core gamers felt genuinely excluded. At the end of this presentation we came away impressed, wanting to see more. Penello sums it up succinctly, using language uncannily similar to what we've been hearing from other sources close to Microsoft ever since the initial Xbox One debut:

"It's impossible to talk about it. When you see it, you understand."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-what-the-xbox-one-dash-means-for-gamers
 
Honestly I think both companies will release in November, reason being is because by doing this some of the blockbuster games released in sept and October will force consumers to double dip since they are not backwards compatible.
 
Microsoft will rush to be first again, and everybody's console will get the rrod's this time around as well.
 
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Nine times out of ten the console will do well.It won't beat the ps4, but it will sale lifetime close to 60 million units.Well, if they cut the price in the first two years.
 
Honestly I think both companies will release in November, reason being is because by doing this some of the blockbuster games released in sept and October will force consumers to double dip since they are not backwards compatible.

Both consoles are already confirmed to release in November.